16bit

[bod]

Hi, I am BOD from UiC. I am a noob here.

Ok... Im not here to argue about whether Kung is a cock or not (as he is).

I am posting because the 16bit rule is beyond vague.

How do you know if someone is playing with 16bit?

Do we go by perception of 16bit or a screenshot of the settings?

Do both the Color depth and texture detail have to be 16 bit or just the one?

If we use the 16bit rule then shouldn't we have a rule for screen resolution and texture detail?

I have many screenshots of opponents who have played matchs against us where they were playing 16 bit and even 640x480. Do I send them to Clandle so all the matchs can be nulled and we get default. No, I wouldnt do that because I carefully looked at everyone of them and couldn't see the advantage they gained.

My opinion is...
16bit should not be allowed (but how do you prove it)
Minimum resolution should be 1024x768
There is no PC out there these days that cant handle MOHAA at 32bit @ 1024x768.

I want this to be a constructive discussion please.

[Fuppet]

The timing of the added rule of 16bit was after G@mm was caught blatantly abusing 16bit by viewing the enemy through a wall, via a screenshot.

Having seen the advantages of 16bit abuse, I think it requires a ban in view of todays high spec gaming rigs.

I'm sure Billie will have a look in shortly and possibly answer your questions and also correct me if I am wrong.

Apologies for not being more helpful at this time.

[ThE PuNiShEr]

UiC is treatend unfair imo.
I cant look in everyones settings if they havent changed it
to 32 bit or not.
If you really want an solution.
give Kung the banns HE deserves
and let US replay WeC(ryalot)iP, without Kung
and a CMOHL Admin to watch over the match.

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

There is no PC out there these days that cant handle MOHAA at 32bit @ 1024x768.
hhhmmm

i run 32 bit 1280x1024

[ThE PuNiShEr]

Even though.
who cares about your settings.
Why is the option of 16 BIT in MOHAA anywayz then?
if you cant use it?

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

why play wit bad grafick ???

[ThE PuNiShEr]

why have the option?

[bod]

So much for constructive replies.

Haahr - I think you are agreeing with me but I don't think you realise it? Or maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick.

Punisher - Please do not talk about the match and how it was dealt with. What I am hoping is that by the end of the topic we will see how people feel. If it clears up this mess of 16bit then great.

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

have old is mohaa

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

for abaut 3 yeres ago i hade a com 64 almost and it cutten run 32 bit lausi grafick but now i have a better pc then why play wit 16 bit when 32 is alot better grafick

[ThE PuNiShEr]

what has a com 64 to do with this topic?? ermmm

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

hmm for 3 yeres ago there was not many pc that cut run 32 but only 16 bit but there was not the same grafick card like now

[Falco Lombardi]

As I understand it, kung was unluckily screenshotted before or while he was trying to change his settings from 16bit to 32bit to abide by cmohl rules. I don't know why he feels the need to play with 16bit at all but the fact of the matter is, he didn't play the match with 16bit. He played with 32bit but had to change from 16bit because that's what his settings are as default when he starts up mohaa.

That's what I've been told anyway. Who knows who is telling the truth or not on t3h internets. But I have no reason to not believe him.

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

sry to say this but 1 ss 20.45 and the last ss 22.09 and the ss wit 16 bit 21.29 that is middel off the match and you can have all the ss wit time on END story

[Major Lagg]

FINALLY I'm getting some answers here - and it's not even in ANY of the relevant topics. So...
Kung was caught being in the Graphics Options menu, with his mouse on the 16 - 32 bit toggle switch? THAT is why UiC was defaulted?! So, you don't even know whether he actually used the bug, OR 16 bit. You just assume that he was putting it on or off because he's in that menu. Well, that definitely does sound like a very water tight proof. [/sarcasm]

In any case, that is not what this topic is about.

I think BOD is right. There is no reason (other than gaining unfair advantages) one would use 16 bit. Any current PC can run 32 bit, and it looks nicer too. I run mine on maximum settings, except the resolution, which I keep on 1024 because that's my desktop res, and I don't feel like changing it.

The problem is, you can't enforce a ban on in-game options, because there's no real way of checking. Unless you make a config that everyone has to use... but then you get the problem of resolution, mouse sensitivity, brightness, etcetera. Short of that though, I don't think there's any real way to force everyone to use 32 bit. ... Actually, that wouldn't even work, because everyone can just change their settings in-game. -_-

And as far as I understand, putting it on 16 bit doesn't even trigger the bug; there's a bunch of other settings you need to change too, before it's any use. So, technically speaking, isn't banning 16 bit going a bit far? Shouldn't you only ban that specific combination of settings?

...

You know what, let's blame EA for making such a crappily coded game.

[Ranek]

Oh dear god i cannot even believe the stupidity of this topic...

Let me just try and sum it up for all you cretins:

BoOM - PoINT 1.

A LOT of people that play this game can't run there PC's on anything above 16 bit and couldn't even dream of a res over 800x600. So stop thinking that you can enforce a rule that makes people do this.

BoOM - PoINT 2.

16 bit does not give EVERY person an advantage. I've been running one of my settings on 16 bit for yearssssssssssssssssssssssss and i don't gain any sort of advantage.

BoOM - PoINT 3.

Unless you have a screenshot of someone abusing 16 bit they aren't doing anything wrong. Thats what the screenshot system is for isn't it. As in gamms case he got caught for it, but he should have been banned anyway for selling bypasses. BET UIC DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THAT ONE :)

[Billie]

Hi Bod

It is nice to see a constructive post for debate that isn't full of abuse. Thank you for that.

The only way to prove someone is using 16bit is by screenshot. The rule that 16bit was not allowed as of this season was brought in more than two months ago now so it does surprise me slightly that it has taken this long for people to question it.

It is an extremely hard and virtually impossible rule to police which is why in the past we had always avoided having a ruling on it.

Recent events brought about an admin rethink and the ruling was brought in for this season.

I would doubt very much that any player here would have to run in 16bit these days. The majority that say they need to use 16bit actually have over 200fps on their ss so I fail to agree with them on the point that they need to use it.

If someone would like to share with the community and enlighten us all as to why there is a need to use 16 bit these days then I am sure we would all be very interested to hear it.

Please continue to debate the issue of 16 bit constructively and if the general consensus is that we should remove the 16bit ruling and allow 16 bit again then that is what will be done for next season.

[Ranek]

I think the rule in principle is a good one...

I couldn't actually find the rule in the list, but i think you should probably change the wording. So, 16 bit is not allowed to be used if a player can gain an advantage. The only way you can catch people is by seeing someone clearly through a wall or one of those window glitches.

But even the majority of these cases people can just claim that the opposition was too close to that wall.

I am running 16 bit, how are you ever going to catch me, and why would you want to since i get no kind of advantage. And im also not going to change my settings that i've been using for years.

[Metallifux]

If you really want an solution.
give Kung the banns HE deserves
and let US replay WeC(ryalot)iP, without Kung
and a CMOHL Admin to watch over the match.

A rematch would be fair for both teams and a better solution than a default win.

Any player caught using 16bit will receive a 4 match ban for the offence. If a player is caught again using 16bit they will then face a permanent ban from the league.

A punishment for the person who has used 16Bit is ok but please don't punish UiC for Kungs mistake.

[clrkz]

I agree with Metallifux, and 16bit only works with some gfx cards tbh. So unless u can see the bug via ss it shouldnt be a ban imo. KissKiss

[bod]

I think the rule in principle is a good one...

I couldn't actually find the rule in the list, but i think you should probably change the wording. So, 16 bit is not allowed to be used if a player can gain an advantage. The only way you can catch people is by seeing someone clearly through a wall or one of those window glitches.

That's because the rule doesn't appear on the rules of the homepage. The rule is in the rules on the forum.

[Decks]

Ok i havent got much time online to read all that tbh but im glad this was brought up about the 16bit abuse and nice to see someone else in the same mind as me as I too believe it shouldnt be tolerated here. (or anywhere for that matter ..............

I for one think its a sham that a player gets only a two match ban for this lame act ..........(Where ?? Inter matches ?? Div matches or all included ??) He or they, should be Banned form the league its self imo ..... Why have a **** hot system and then go lower you settings to gain that little more edge in a game ?? Your cheating imo and take the game too serious. Its about fun and keeping the game alive at this stage as its the only game out there that gives you full control of your abilities while DMW do their job in catching the rest of the n00bs out there........

Get a life to those using this 16bit crap ! I remember i,ve had no choice in using 16bit as my graphics card ****ed up and had as said, no other choice in the matter. But stated while in game and while playing on any server Decks in SM / Safe mode.
I admit I havent a clue about what to do in regarding abusing the 16bit use, but sure i havent a clue about any edge to gain from another player out there for that matter only the use of BAskins lol ..........

I,d like to see a Clandle member caught for the second time using or abusing 16bit, Banned form the league ................. This is just me :bor

[Ranek]

Decks....

I agree with what you say about people using it to cheat, but people that use it to cheat will be caught by SS. No other way you can stop them using it.

I'm using it, no advantage, should i be banned?

[bod]

The Clandle rule, in it's simplest form, effectively states that using 16bit is cheating (you can call it "advantage" if you want but it's all the same)

We have an anti-cheat system, namely DMW, that allows 16bit.

Therefore logic dictates that 16bit is allowed.

As much as I do not like that logic and I think 16bit and stupidly low resolutions shouldn't be allowed the logic follows these principles:

16bit is part of the game
16bit is not disallowed by any anti-cheat system

As no one can enforce this 16bit rule fairly it needs to be removed until such a time that it can be.

If you want 16bit to be classed as a cheat (unfair advantage) then it needs to be enforced by DMW (which I am sure would be a very simple piece of coding).

[Billie]

16 bit will never be enforced by DMW as it is part of the game settings. Their stance on the issue is that it is down to ladders/leagues to deal with it as they see fit.

Just because DMW allows it doesn't mean that we have to follow suit.

I am still keen to hear the answer as to why people use it when they say there is no advantage

[ThE PuNiShEr]

maybe to get more fps?

[bod]

I just want to close the fps myth...

Cinema = 24fps

PAL TV = 25fps

NTSC TV= 30fps

So... what is an acceptable fps? If your worst fps never drops below 30fps then you are still doing better than any TV standard.

If you do a lot of PC magazine reading (geeky me) then you will see that an acceptable average fps for any game is 60fps. That's means you can have a peak low of 30fps and a peak high of 90fps.

I have an MX4000 PCI card in my kids computer (£15) - it runs MOHAA at 1024x768\32bit @ 90fps. Someone want to argue with that fact?

So back to 16bit... assuming we do not allow it. How do I prove that someone is using 16bit? A screenshot? What would it look like?

[Ranek]

I am still keen to hear the answer as to why people use it when they say there is no advantage

Billie according to your logic i could ask:

Why do you use 32bit when it has no advantage

Why do you use low sound quality, if it has no advantage

Why do you use the WASD if it has no advantage

Why do you use wall decals if it has no advantage.


16bit is just 16bit graphics, i'm used to it, i dont want to change. My resoultion is 1280 x1024, and one setting is on 32bit...

But on my laptop its, 16bit and 600x400... You can't block these things.

Also DMW could quite easily block 16bit same as they blocked, cg_shadows 3 etc. But they don't because half of there community probably still use it.

Also don't know why i'm argueing cus u cant find out if i am using it anyway :p

[Major Lagg]

Having your settings on 16 bit is only half of the bug, though, isn't it? I've never looked into it, but from what I've heard you need to have a fixed combination of settings, and even then the glitch only appears in certain spots on certain maps. So why punish people for having their settings on 16 bit? Not that I see a reason why you would play with it, other than having a crappy system or video card. I find it way more pleasing to the eye with my settings on high.

If you're really not looking for advantages, then it would make sense to run your game with the best graphics settings, since it makes things look much prettier. Even so, it seems a tad unfair to me to punish people that aren't actually doing anything wrong. If they want their game to look crap, then let them. If they do use it to bug, you'll notice in the screenshots, and then you can take action afterwards.

I have to agree with BOD on this one; it makes no sense to have a rule you can't enforce. I also understand DMW's reason for not wanting to ban it, so odds are it can NEVER be enforced.

PS: as for the FPS thing, the human eye won't even notice a difference between 30 or 300. And your eye's frame catch rate is biologically set and can't be toggled. Too bad, eh.

[Ranek]

Your eyes must be very bad because i can quite easily tell the difference between 30 and 100 :)

Theres plenty of things you can do to your game that can give you an advantage. Using 16 bit is cheating, having varied gfx setting to see further through fog or bushes or just a bigger contrast between models and walls isn't

Thats why all the top players of other games have very specific settings.

[Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis]

16bit only works with shadows on complex and with certain gfx cards, i use 32bit and complex shadows and 800x600res most of my settings are low, because im used to them and not going to change them as everyone has there preferences.

[bod]

There is no PC out there these days that cant handle MOHAA at 32bit @ 1024x768.
hhhmmm

i run 32 bit 1280x1024

Wow - really? You must have balls the size of melons to make that statement. Here is a screenshot of you in a match with us...

ftp://myspace:myspace@drummerbod.homeftp.net/haahr.jpg

640x480 @ 16bit

So lets stop the bollocks.

[Anvil]

:doh: AHAHAHA
ah well .maybe that was just a glitch..err i mean a temporary settings malfunction.
:think:

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

haw old is that ss 6 month lol

[bod]

haw old is that ss 6 month lol

Laugh it off fat boy :busted:

[ThE PuNiShEr]

Inspector BOD :)
well done! lmao:woot:
:bath

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

for 6 montch there was no banneding for 16 bit :think:

[Playmo]

Interesting debate here,

I only used 16 bit in the beginning of the mohaa world where it was normal. Cant remember any advantage but like Lagg said, maybe it requires more settings to be on a specific ammount. These days (and for like the last 4 years) i play with other computers and everything on 'high'. I dont know what difference it makes but i agree with some people here.

You can not prove if someone is using 16bit to gain an advantage or because his system is crap.

If this 'bug' needs multiple settings to be on/off etc (like lagg said) then yes, make a rule for that. But still, isnt it DMW's job to fix these kind of things (no, because the DMW team sucks?)

[Billie]

Please don't force me to lock this thread.

Keep on topic and refrain from personal attacks, abuse will not be tolerated and bans will be issued if it continues.

[Ranek]

Interesting debate here,

But still, isnt it DMW's job to fix these kind of things (no, because the DMW team sucks?)


Please don't be stupid enough to think that DMW can fix a gfx error. Theys taken it upon themselves to stop cheats, not gfx errors.

[Playmo]

What I mean Ranek is that they can 'block' certain settings just like the shadow thing someone mentioned in this topic.

I understand that they cant actually fix it, but blocking would be enough

[Major Lagg]

Yes, I'm fairly sure it should be possible to block the specific combination of settings needed to trigger the 16 bit bug. That way you won't stop people with crappy PCs from playing, and you do stop the fools who like looking through walls.

But then, if it were that easy, they would've no doubt done it by now... right?

[Cpt.Scotty]

Just my 2p's worth.

I think its a fair argument to argue if 16 bit is being used as a cheat or can your prove its a cheat - and that debate could run and run.

However, I feel its bit late when Clandle made it clear that 16 bit could not be used - so I see the argument being a mute point - the rules are the rules, so to try and argue them after "breaking" them (if indeed that is what has happened) is a waste of time - however unfair or unjust you feel they are.

As for DMW - its not their rules - its Clandles - so if DMW allow or not - is not a pertient point.

Just my opinion.

[Ranek]

Different on different PC's will trigger 16 bit bug, depends on your gfx card and drivers. So no there is no way you could block it, and i think it would be unfair anyway since people still use it legitmately.

[bod]

for 6 montch there was no banneding for 16 bit :think:

You need to read your own comments on this thread.

[bod]

Just my 2p's worth.

I think its a fair argument to argue if 16 bit is being used as a cheat or can your prove its a cheat - and that debate could run and run.

However, I feel its bit late when Clandle made it clear that 16 bit could not be used - so I see the argument being a mute point - the rules are the rules, so to try and argue them after "breaking" them (if indeed that is what has happened) is a waste of time - however unfair or unjust you feel they are.

As for DMW - its not their rules - its Clandles - so if DMW allow or not - is not a pertient point.

Just my opinion.

I completely agree but you've missed the point. How do you prove that someone is running 16bit? We need some specific examples (screenshots) as a reference point.

[bod]

people talking about why have crappy graphic etc, ive always had mine on low and 800x600, its what i started with and will always play with, but most people on here dont have a clue. mostly foreigners *cough*wecip*cough*

Oh dear god.

And by the way - who are you? We don't have a demon in UiC.

[ThE PuNiShEr]

not anymore bod
he was in uic

[Dragonheart]

From what i remember the advantages are on Hunt and Bridge, you can see peeps through the walls as if you have a wall hack im sure Billie will send you all the ss as i know she has several.

What ever the issue is about mohaa you will always get peeps whining that they want to keep it, this game will never move forward unless there are actions taken to prevent peeps from using this (in-game Hack) over site from the game manufacturers. lol

As i will never play in this league again my opinion wont be counted lmao

[izzoooo]

You need to read your own comments on this thread.

i posted he was being hyprocit, different choice of words but meh.... hes not worth the arguement :o