"rules" decision

[England4eva]

Although a player was used outside of the 24hr rule... it has taken over 6 days to bring to our attention.

Not We CiP's fault. The badly made site caused this.


The intial 24 hour rule is to stop clan hoppers / mercs being used....

Doesn`t say it is limited to this in the rules.


yes he was outside the 24hr rule by maximum (possibly) of 45 minutes, he was not active in any current clans during this season...

Admitting he was outside the 24 hour rule but then trying to reason it with only "45 minutes"... isn`t anything less than 24 hours, not 24 hours?


I will also be issuing a warning to the offending clan..... a repeat offense will mean points being deducted..

Why do this if you don`t think they`ve done anything wrong? and if you do think they`ve done something wrong then shouldn`t the punishment be as the rules state?

I know this won`t make any difference and my opinion doesn`t matter but all the above just contradicts it self more than once.

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

England4eva dont steal my woords but i think they will delete this like they deletet the other post

[jam!e]

clandle should have a rule where no clan can have any new members during most of the season then have a week or two in it where they can register like the transfer window in football!

EDIT: Took this bit out as i am a silly person who can not read proper. sorry


also i like to add we-cip are a fun and good clan sad to see them go if they leave :(

[Studek]

haahr if you wish to appeal please send email to billie and copy me..

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

you and billie will get a appel tomoro

[kev19]

against CiP 2nd team, we had an identical situation, one of our players, reigstered his GUID less than a 24 hours before match. We played the match, was no flaming or raging frm either side, we both said gg and they accepted it. 2 Hours after the match was accepted a senior member of we CiP demanded demos from us. I clearly stated that match was accepted and we had no obligation to do so. It was then he noticed that one of our players registration dates was less than the 24 hour rule. It was only then that I became aware of this also. I heard no more of it so i assume he did not go further with it.

Edit
My Point is surely the obligation is on the opposing team to ensure all guids and registrations of opponents are in order. That is no the say thet every CL should have it that that way already, but oversights do happen. If you are the clanleader who fails to notice the fault in the Pre match Guid checks, surely you pay for your own ignorance. The rule was designed to prevent mercs.
Thought the whole point of this league was the enjoyment of playing cod4 competitively against friendly clans. Tbh methinks this thread was started in order to provoke flame from certain people. Not very mature tbh.

[Mr.Kaizer]

clandle should have a rule where no clan can have any new members during most of the season then have a week or two in it where they can register like the transfer window in football!

and e4e only one noticing aq having an unregistered memeber is lies

i noticed before he was registered even talked to kazier about it ;)



nvm, just understood what you meant.

[England4eva]

If you are the clanleader who fails to notice the fault in the Pre match Guid checks, surely you pay for your own ignorance.

I`ll point you in the direction of the follow "Rule" Kev19 and this will clarify my points for you..

"Players must be on the team roster and have their PB GUID present in the database for the minimum of 24 hours before any game. Failure to comply will result in a default loss. Exception: if opposing team agrees to play a newly registered player, a screenshot detailing this must be provided. Failure to provide information when requested will result in a default loss. "


Tbh methinks this thread was started in order to provoke flame from certain people. Not very mature tbh.

Lol, hardly? No flame there, just questioning why the rule above if the outcome is as Studek says? Surely even you who sings to every tune aQ clan hum can understand that?

[Billie]

Not We CiP's fault. The badly made site caused this.Granted that is true. The site has always been like that, if We Cip had a problem with the player in question joining the day before and were concerned about him being in the clan for less than 24 hours then they should have contacted an admin.

We Cip accepted the result and 6 days passed with not a word from them so one presumes that they had no problem with the player in question.

If AQ checked their roster before the match they would have seen that he was accepted the day before the match and presumed that he was eligible to play so I see no deliberate attempt to fool anyone there.

Admittedly the site is to blame for the error but fortunately this has now been fixed and will no longer be an issue.

Up until Sunday, when the site was fixed, any clan checking the rosters would have only had the date to go on with regard to the 24 hour rule. As this event happened before the site was altered and We Cip did not question the time he had been in the clan then there can be no recourse for them with regard to this result.

If we were to give We Cip a default loss over this event then it would mean to be fair to every clan we would need to check every single result over the past 6 years. I for one know that I am not going to do that so the only fair thing to do is let the result stand.

However if We Cip wish to appeal this decision then they have every right to do so and I shall wait to hear from them.

It is very sad that for 6+ years we have run as a community site with the emphasis on good sportsmanship and all of a sudden we see such arguements over 15 mins.

[GGX|Westy]

Westy c2b135b4 20 N/A

Is there a reason why my date doesnt show?

[Studek]

Possibly another bug....Seems to affect some CL's and a few random players too

[England4eva]

If AQ checked their roster before the match they would have seen that he was accepted the day before the match and presumed that he was eligible to play so I see no deliberate attempt to fool anyone there.

I`d imagine it was an aQ member who accepted the player into the clan at 8:45pm the previous day so i`m sure they were fully aware. If they weren`t aware
then as Clandle rules state "Ignorance will not be accepted as a viable excuse for non-compliance." - In this case "presumed" goes hand in hand with "ignorance" and so its not a viable excuse really?


It is very sad that for 6+ years we have run as a community site with the emphasis on good sportsmanship and all of a sudden we see such arguements over 15 mins.

Not arguements, just questions. Possibily if the rules were looked at like I mentioned on more than one occation then 99% of problems could be avoided. I remember plenty more arguements from CMOHL days (none of which included me ;) ) over rules, times etc etc.

So "community" or not, a league is a league and rules are rules, if rules can`t or aren`t followed then scrap the rules as they aren`t worth being there.

[Spartan]

"Players must be on the team roster and have their PB GUID present in the database for the minimum of 24 hours before any game. Failure to comply will result in a default loss. Exception: if opposing team agrees to play a newly registered player, a screenshot detailing this must be provided. Failure to provide information when requested will result in a default loss. "

All this time...we've been told that it's the opposing clan that is supposed to check the GUIDs...this rule seems to suggest that the clan breaking the rules has to ask permission to do so before the game...not getting agreement by the clan just not looking...

Another point i have to agree with is...15 minute is the same as 20 hours when your limit is 24 hours...if an exception is made for that, it will eventually increase, to 30 minutes, then 45 and etc etc...

The site bug caused a problem yes and We Cip didn't in fact ask for it until 6 days later...but the rule doesn't say...'must ask for default within 24 hours'

It pains me to say it but i do agree with e4e on most of his comments...how many times i myself have said about this sort of conflict and it's not been changed -_- and there's of course the other people who agree....just needs to be changed to make it clearer...and then enforced properly with no leniency, or just scrapped altogether and let people play who were just added..

[Studek]

Yes there are loop holes, gaps , miss understandings etc....

The rules are being re-written ....

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

do aQ have a screenshot off asking if it oki to play wit a player under the 24 houres rules

it is still the cl ho have to notes when hes player has be registretet and if he not schur abaut it then talk to the other team like i dit to you studek in oures match and you cut go in and chek time i have sreenshot off that you first time say no and 2nd time say oki and that was 33 min for the 24 houres limet aQ is 45 min befor24 houres limmet

[Spartan]

Studek, they might need to be re-written, but the admins have been saying all the time it's the clans job to check the opposing teams roster...when clearly the rules currently state that it isn't....

Until they have changed, the current ones have to be used as final...as that is what people can follow...

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

wot is espoetfix 1.0 it that alaud in a clandle match

[Studek]

Studek, they might need to be re-written, but the admins have been saying all the time it's the clans job to check the opposing teams roster...when clearly the rules currently state that it isn't....

Until they have changed, the current ones have to be used as final...as that is what people can follow...

I have, and do check as do some others on opposing clans rosters before match.....

[Studek]

wot is espoetfix 1.0 it that alaud in a clandle match

Dont know what is it?

Not part of clandle requirement, maybe for another league can you supply some info please ?

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

http://www.enbclan.com/files/clandle/aQ.jpg

[Studek]

Interesting....

SS supplied by ENB...

Can I have the FULL orignal SS of this please.

Not just a cropped version....

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

pls comm xfire the you can have demo to if you wont if you dont belive ENB...

[England4eva]

Interesting....

SS supplied by ENB...


Sorry, not supplied by EnB, please keep my clan as an entity out of this.

I hosted the screenshot for Haahr because he had no other method of hosting it, this was a personal choice, not a clan choice. Ty.

[Studek]

At work... will be on from about 5pm GMT

[buster]

I know theses posts can get out of hand, but this result involves all clans playing in clandle with that said, at the end of the day it should be quite simple, rules are rules, and whats good for one is good for all, and I have always felt that before a match you had to check the other clans roster etc to see if they where clean and ready for that war was a very poor system,
In rejekz we check our own members and make sure they are ready, if they aren’t then that’s our fault no one else’s, we have stopped members putting there names in for clandle wars lately as the clandle webby hasn’t been sending the emails to newly registered members, although they where registered on the clandle website, they had not been added to the clan roster, so as the rules state they cant play, but going by this result
It would have been fine for us to be sneaky and let them slip on in and take a chance and sure just tell lies after that you didn’t notice. not very sportsman like , the better way I would find is that if you went to the other team and where honest with them , they would mostly say no prob work away ,
If your changing the rules then make it that each clans cl or that clans clandle WA is responsible for there own clan and the other team can check the other team is clean when they can , should it be before or after the said match , if each clan does the job right then they have nothing to worry about .
If you look how long it can take to set up a cod4 war and get everyone on the server and ready for kick off, there isn’t much time to say hold on till I check you pbs and clan roster, thought that after would just be common sense?

[Mr.Kaizer]

do aQ have a screenshot off asking if it oki to play wit a player under the 24 houres rules

it is still the cl ho have to notes when hes player has be registretet and if he not schur abaut it then talk to the other team like i dit to you studek in oures match and you cut go in and chek time i have sreenshot off that you first time say no and 2nd time say oki and that was 33 min for the 24 houres limet aQ is 45 min befor24 houres limmet

We never asked you if it was OK to field a player who was outside the 24 hour-rule, because it never crossed our minds.

[Spartan]

I have, and do check as do some others on opposing clans rosters before match.....

That isn't the rule though...clearly the rule states the CL has to check, and make sure it's ok..otherwise a default at whatever stage after the match...

[England4eva]

We never asked you if it was OK to field a player who was outside the 24 hour-rule, because it never crossed our minds.

2.1 Clans

It is the clan leaders responsibility, to ensure that all players are aware of, and abide by the rules. Ignorance will not be accepted as a viable excuse for non-compliance.

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

spartan msn pls


read http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=en#de|en|*%20NoGunsway-Fix%0D%0ADer%20NoGunsway-Fix%20entfernt%20wie%20gewohnt%20den%20Sway%2C%20a lso%20das%20Wackeln%2C%20der%20Waffe%2C%20wenn%20m an%20%C3%BCber%20Kimme%20und%20Korn%20zielt.%0D%0A %0D%0A*%20AWP-Scope-Fix%0D%0ADie%20beiden%20Boltscopes%20M40%20und%20R 700%20haben%20im%20Zoom%20ebenfalls%20keinen%20Swa y%20mehr%2C%20sind%20also%20immer%20zentriert%2C%2 0allerdings%20muss%20nach%20jedem%20Schuss%20neu%2 0angelegt%20werden.%20Luftanhalten%20ist%20somit%2 0%C3%BCberfl%C3%BCssig.%0D%0A%0D%0A*%20Scroll-Exploit-Fix%0D%0ADieser%20Fix%20verhindert%20die%20exzessi ve%20Nutzung%20des%20Mausrad%20Exploits%0D%0AIn%20 langen%20Tests%20auf%20den%20unterschiedlichsten%2 0Systemen%20und%20mit%20den%20verschiedensten%20Sp ielern%20haben%20wir%20einen%20Weg%20gefunden%2C%2 0der%20diesen%20Vorteil%20zunichte%20macht%2C%20oh ne%20dabei%20das%20normale%20Spielgef%C3%BChl%20un d%20Waffenhandling%20entscheidend%20zu%20beeinflus sen.%0D%0A%0D%0A*%20Sprinttime-Bug-Fix%0D%0ADer%20Sprinttime-Bugfix%20findet%20sich%20bereits%20in%20der%20PAM% 20Mod%2C%20musste%20aber%20%C3%BCbernommen%20werde n.%0D%0AEr%20behebt%20Fehler%20im%20Standard%20CoD 4%2C%20die%20es%20erm%C3%B6glichten%20mit%20bestim mten%20Waffen%20l%C3%A4nger%20zu%20sprinten%2C%20a ls%20eigentlich%20vorgesehen.



its alot of changes

[Mr.Kaizer]

2.1 Clans

It is the clan leaders responsibility, to ensure that all players are aware of, and abide by the rules. Ignorance will not be accepted as a viable excuse for non-compliance.


2.1 Clans
Clan leaders should make sure that all of their players are registered on the team, with correct contact details. (this includes PB GUIDs)

Yet you as an admin and clanleader failed to follow this rule when fielding -[EnB]- Chris for several seasons - as you said yourself. So please don't correct us on how the rules are unless you're actually following them yourself.

[-=We CiP=-haahr(DK)]

kaizer hmm rules


you s say at 2nd map slahs and i ask why you say to me read rules ????


2.4. Match General Settings

Knife slash for sides at start of the match

[England4eva]

[I]
Yet you as an admin and clanleader failed to follow this rule when fielding -[EnB]- Chris for several seasons - as you said yourself. So please don't correct us on how the rules are unless you're actually following them yourself.

Yes we did field Chris (who had an incorrect GUID) for a few seasons and in not one match did any clan ask him to leave. This was an oversight on his and my part and as soon as you pointed it out we corrected it, the incorrect GUID never existed and he`s played since 2007 with the now correct one (as pointed out by Studek)

That aside, the following rule in relation to GUIDs -> "Failure to check BEFORE the war starts, for ANY DISCREPANCIES, means final result will stand. (No exceptions)" covers that one and you would of been well within your right to ask him to leave. As you didn`t then there was nothing punishable in our situation.

That said, this is all very off-topic of you Per and hardly relates to your case in which your admission of "We never asked you if it was OK to field a player who was outside the 24 hour-rule, because it never crossed our minds. " shows you knew/know you played an invalid player but just didn`t bother to ask We CiP if it was OK and assume you could get away with it.

So while our oversight of mine/enb chris was punished by the available rules.. being that you should of checked and asked him to leave... your oversight isn`t being punished by the same set of rules every other clan has to abide by.

[Mr.Kaizer]

From Steve:

At the time I wouldn't have had a problem if the admin team awarded the defualt win to WeCip, technically Edless had only been on our roster 23hrs and 15mins at match time. 45mins is clearly alot in denmark.
It was 24hours give or take a few minutes. usually clandle has been a Give or take kind of place.


WeCip played well, got beat, remained pleasent and accepted the result. 6 days later at the behest of e4E, who just happend to be checking all player join times against fixtures decided to bring the issue up. (All players or was he just looking for something to use against us?)

6Days after they confirmed th result. Clearly they never gave a toss and now are just being pedantic.

Can everyone not see this is about e4E trying to get one over on us.

His starting this thread shows that.
Wtf has this to do with e4E, I wasn't aware you'd left EnB and joined WeCip.

You were recently kicked as an admin if I recall over this whole affair. Or were Billie and Co just preparing their Get lost speach and "You decided it was time to quit"


When we joined Clandle it was a friendly league to play in. You organised matches joined a server and played. No hassel what so ever. What happend?

WeCip have no more right complaining about this result as i do about seren beating us last season or Enclave beating us during season 2.

e4E likes quoting Rules Quote him this one

4.1 Entering & Accepting Results

After the match the result should be entered by a Clan Leader or Co-Leader using the system on the left of the main page. If there is a conflict then please advise the divisional admin within 24 hours. Do not enter or accept the score.
It clearly states in the rules we must use the latest version of Pam and directs you to Pam 4.00. Our server uses The latest version of Pam4.02 Wanna claim a default for not using 4.00?

[Studek]

4.1 Entering & Accepting Results

After the match the result should be entered by a Clan Leader or Co-Leader using the system on the left of the main page. If there is a conflict then please advise the divisional admin within 24 hours. Do not enter or accept the score.

Topic closed

[Studek]

From Steve:

You were recently kicked as an admin if I recall over this whole affair. Or were Billie and Co just preparing their Get lost speach and "You decided it was time to quit"


Just to clear this up he resigned...

If anyone else wishes to continue with this topic a 1 week forum ban will be issued...

Result will stand....
descissions are final

[Billie]

The point that is being missed here and is the reason that the admins are leaving the result to stand is this:

We Cip checked players guids etc at match time as confirmed by them, no mention from them of any problems, played the match said gg and accepted the result.

6 days pass and no word from We Cip with any problem about the result or the players.

The website was then changed to display correct times and it shows that in fact an AQ player was ineligible to play for 15 mins.

We cannot decide because of site improvements that we can then go back 6 days/ weeks or whatever and change results.

If We Cip had come to us and questioned the player before this then things would have been different but the fact is they did not say a word.

If I decide to make playing with an incorrect guid a default win today would you expect me to go back and change the match results throughout the season because of it. Of course not, we can only move forward

We Cip did not approach us with any problems and as they had the same means as everyone else to check that players eligibility then under the rules there is nothing more to be said on the matter.

The rules are being reviewed for next season although 15 mins will no longer be an issue as times are now displayed.

I have however stated that We Cip may send in an appeal if they should wish to do so.